Low wages — not refusal to work — driving more eligibility for SNAP, Medicaid

Terry Gerton You recently issued a report on federal safety net programs that updates work you first published years ago as you were recalculating and reassessing these programs, especially Medicaid and SNAP. What did you find that had changed in the intervening years?

Kathy Larin So our report looked at the extent to which adults who are enrolled in two public assistance programs, Medicaid and SNAP, are working. And we also looked at who they’re working for in 11 states. And what we found is that there are a lot of people who are working, and working full-time, and they are still eligible for public assistance programs. That was a consistent finding from years ago, and it continues to hold true today.

Terry Gerton To be counter to the normal narrative about people who are on these programs — that they aren’t working, that they should be in the labor force. There’s a lot of new legislation designed around work requirements. But if they’re working full schedules, how does that compare to folks who aren’t working with these benefits?

Kathy Larin There is a misperception that adults who are enrolled in public assistance programs are not working. And our analysis really challenges that assumption. It shows that about half of all adults that are enrolled in Medicaid or who lived in a household that received SNAP worked at some point during the year. And of those who were working, about two-thirds of those on Medicaid and about 70% of those on SNAP worked full time for at least part of the year in 2024. So it really does fly in the face of some of those misperceptions.

Terry Gerton What did you find about the concentration of industries and occupations where these folks consistently showed up?

Kathy Larin We found that most people who are working and participating in these programs work for private sector employers, and that jobs are concentrated in certain industries. These include food service, food preparation, hospitality, transportation, retail sales, just to give some examples.

Terry Gerton As you looked across the industries, did you see any changes in the trends from your previous work?

Kathy Larin We saw a lot of the same names, but one trend we noticed is an increase in the number of people who were either working for a ride-sharing company or for an app-based delivery company. Both of those were much more heavily represented.

Terry Gerton Why is that important as you’re looking at who’s eligible for public assistance?

Kathy Larin People who are working in these industries, it’s not clear if they are even making the minimum wage, because they shoulder a lot of the costs of their employment, including the costs of their car, their gas, their car insurance. So once that is added up, it’s not clear that these people are even making minimum wage.

Terry Gerton So then what does that tell us about where dependence on these programs is showing up in the labor market?

Kathy Larin I think what it really highlights is the wage levels in these industries are very low. Because in order to participate in Medicaid or SNAP, an individual’s income has to be below a certain threshold, and that threshold is not that far above the poverty line. So people who are working — even if they’re working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year — if they’re making the federal minimum wage, they are still eligible for these programs. People are having to rely on these programs to make ends meet.

Terry Gerton Kathy Larin is a director on the Education, Workforce, and Income Security team at the Government Accountability Office. Kathy, when you looked at the data across, you said, 11 states, you found the same large employers repeatedly showing up across those states. Tell us a little bit more about that finding.

Kathy Larin When we looked at the companies that employ the largest number of Medicaid and SNAP recipients, we saw some widely recognized names, including companies that are in the top 50 of Fortune 500 companies. So these are names like Walmart, Amazon, McDonald’s. Those are the names that we saw when we previously did this work, and those companies continue to be large employers of people who are enrolled in these programs.

Terry Gerton What should policymakers conclude from those kinds of findings?

Kathy Larin I think really the bottom line is large employers are paying their employees low enough wages that they are still eligible for public assistance programs. And one of the responses that we have heard from large employers is that their employees are working part time, or they’re working for them as a second job. But in order to be eligible for public assistance programs, all wages are included. So even if people are piecing together multiple part-time jobs, overall their incomes remain below the eligibility thresholds for these programs.

Terry Gerton So as we’re thinking about the labor market and minimum wage, are there policies that this data do support or policies that this data doesn’t support?

Kathy Larin As you said, it’s a policy decision, so we don’t make any judgments about that. But we believe that this information is critical for policymakers as they are making decisions on issues such as the minimum wage.

Terry Gerton So is this really an industry story? Is it an individual employer story? Is it a salary story, a wage story? What is going on in the labor market that is allowing this problem, this low wage problem to persist?

Kathy Larin I think what this really comes back to is a reminder that most of the people who are participating in Medicaid and SNAP who are able to work are in fact working. And yet, even if they work full time, a full-time schedule, they’re still eligible for these programs. So it really is related. The issue is their income level.

Terry Gerton Kathy, a lot of recent policymaking around these two programs seems to assume that the majority of beneficiaries are able to work, not working and just taking advantage of public benefits. What does your data really tell you about that group of people?

Kathy Larin So, our data tells us that most of those people are already working. Some adults who are receiving Medicaid and SNAP are not working for legitimate reasons, that they are unable to work. They are either elderly or they’re disabled and unable to work. And so it’s not clear whether, say, requiring more Medicaid and SNAP recipients to work is going to result in a lot more people working — because of those who can work, most are already working.

Terry Gerton That is so helpful. And then as we take together all of the data that’s in this report, and you’ve lived with it closely as you’ve done the assessment, how do you want it to shape or change the conversation we’re having around these two programs?

Kathy Larin Really, I think the most important contribution of this report is challenging that assumption, the assumption that most adults who are receiving public assistance are not working. Our data shows the opposite: that most of adults who are receiving these programs are in the labor force, and of those who are working, most are working a full-time schedule.

Terry Gerton So we really need to get after the salary levels in the market to change the outcomes.

Kathy Larin It is the salary levels that makes these people eligible for these programs.